Michelle:
A whole separate topic. We're going to jump into the actual episode. Let's have you introduce yourself!
Bront'e:
Yes. So my name is Bront'e Singleton, but I am known as the polyglot fox on all of the interwebs, all the socials. I call myself officially an introvert language coach. I've been dabbling with different titles, but generally I'm just a language coach and I really like helping language learners, specifically my introvert people, my perfectionist people to learn and use the languages that they're learning. So a lot of times, especially because language coaching is a fairly new concept, a lot of people immediately ask, well, what languages do you teach? And then I have to respond. I don't necessarily teach the languages, but it's more about the process. And that can help you regardless of what language you're learning. And so a lot of the people that I work with right now are learning some of the languages that I know and I'm learning, but they're also learning ones that I'm not, like Swedish and Icelandic and Finnish.
Those are not on my list, but they're learning them and I'm helping them with that process. So I really just love helping language learners to figure out the best way for them to learn languages rather than trying to subscribe to a path that doesn't work. Getting frustrated and hearing someone on the internet that told you frustration is a part of the process. You're going to hate it, but it's okay. It's like, no, you could actually have fun and do this and give yourself grace and all of these other things that I say all the time. So yeah, that's what I do. And then that means that I get to continue learning all the languages that I'm already learning and maintaining them. Yeah.
Michelle:
Yeah. We need to back up for a second just because I of course am totally there with you. I'm there on the ship of the future, and this is the direction that not only we're going, but where we are right now. I do feel that it's a fairly new concept for a lot of people who aren't familiar in terms of language being something you can do outside of a classroom. And I will say that living abroad definitely opened my eyes to all that, but also just traveling internationally and people being completely surprised to be bilingual from birth. It was a fairly new concept for a lot of people, and I realized on this life journey that sometimes we need to go back a few steps in order to make sure we we're all here.
Bront'e:
Yes, yes.
Michelle:
So let's talk a little bit about how you came to this conclusion yourself. I actually think that would help a lot in terms of showing people that it wasn't, I mean, you weren't born and then day two you're like, all right, I'm going to help people
Bront'e:
Push em on their
Michelle:
Own paths.
Bront'e:
Not at all. It was actually something that someone else recommended to me.
Michelle:
Okay. So if we can go from the beginning to sort of how you personally made that shift, I think that would really help a lot of people understand that it's normal and yeah, totally okay to be frustrated, but also to realize that we were all under a certain type of education system philosophy. And then what other options exist
Bront'e:
If you talk
Michelle:
About that?
Bront'e:
Well, technically my earliest exposure to language, I don't come from a bilingual family technically, and I'll go to the technicality in a second, but my family all speaks English, but I was exposed to it in my environment and my neighborhood, lots of languages and dialects and things like that. But my first sort of learning of another language wasn't until fifth or sixth grade. I had a teacher who, I think it was fifth grade, she decided on her own that it was really important for us to learn Spanish, especially being in a neighborhood where there are a lot of Spanish speakers. And so she just took part of her schedule to teach us Spanish. She edited whatever she was doing for the day. She was our social studies teacher and our homeroom teacher, and was like, okay, cutting social studies. It's just a little short so we can have a 15 minute Spanish lesson. And she made it really interactive and really engaging. I remember her tossing. She had this blow up globe in the classroom, and she would use that to toss around. So whoever caught it was the person who had to respond. And one of the activities that she did all the time was repeat after me in Spanish or repeat after me in English, and she would say it. So she's like, and that alone would get us really excited in fifth grade. Yeah, we're going to do it.
Bront'e:
She would just say a single word pencil or blue, and we would have to respond just building up that vocabulary.
Bront'e:
I remember in that moment going, okay, languages are cool. And I distinctly remember that being the start of my obsession with languages. I went through school sixth grade through middle school, taking Spanish and recognizing that I was really good at passing tests, but every year I couldn't actually speak with my friends who spoke Spanish. And there was also this perfectionism in me because I didn't want to make mistakes while talking with them. I wanted to talk. They talked with each other and be understood. And I was like, if I can't do that, I got to wait. I got to wait until I'm there. And there is some, I was going to say validity, but there is good reasons to wait sometimes as introverts, if we really can't start, there are other ways to improve speaking, but I didn't know those other ways. I didn't know how to build all those other skills that impact our speaking pronunciation and building a sentence. I didn't know that I was like 12. Yeah, exactly. But there was also a place to sort of push yourself with people you trust at that time. I wish that future me could go back and just say, but these are your friends.
You can trust making mistakes in front of your friends. You do that already being able to translate that sort of mistake making into language learning. I feel like every new thing that we do in our lives, we have to relearn how to mess up and relearn how to not be great at it, which is hard.
And I went through middle school Spanish and then all the way up to Spanish four and high school, and that was my junior year. And so I had an open slot in my schedule. And through middle school to high school, I was also learning Japanese and Korean because me and my friends were obsessed with K-pop and obsessed with anime. And so we were like, Innu, Neko we're learning words, oh my God. And say, yo, we felt so cool. And I think the biggest thing for me and my friends was that we felt like every time we were learning a new word and diving into a new language, we were getting invited into a secret club
Like, oh my God, we can talk with each other in class and the teacher's not going to know what we're saying. It just felt really nice to have this language that we could use. And that was also when Pig Latin was really big. We're like, yeah. And the teachers will never know what mostly it was just the teachers or your parents or whatever.
Michelle:
Yeah, yeah.
Bront'e:
And so when I got to high school in that last year, I was like, okay, let me look at the languages that are available. And see, I knew I wanted to continue doing languages. I think somewhere in that journey I said I wanted to do five languages by 25 and 10 languages by 30. I was like, I'm all in. Let's do this. So that fourth year I took Mandarin and Young high school me was like, I know it's not exactly Japanese, but it's close enough in comparison to Spanish or French. I was like, I'm going to take Mandarin and see how that goes. It was completely different because tones were not a thing that I ever had to, I was like, what is this? You mean? I learned later when I was trying to practice with a friend that I tried to ask her, does she have a cat? And I ended up saying, do you have fur? And I was like, why is this a problem that I have to confront? Yeah, this should be an issue. But no, it was giving me practice on how to make mistakes and laugh rather than make mistakes and despair and hate myself.
It sometimes still comes up, but I have the self-talk now that I repeat that helps me to like, okay, but this is funny. Tell somebody else, have them laugh with you. And then I got into college and that was even more language. So I took Japanese for three years and I would say that was my first experience of more traditional school because I'm in a class, I'm with other students, there's a teacher involved. But the first experience where language teaching actually helps me to learn the language. And so as someone who wasn't born bilingual but started in what is fifth grade age, like nine ish. And so from nine until college at 17, 18, it wasn't until then that I had my first experience of I can actually speak the language from the class. And I immediately started to think about why. I'm always thinking about the why's and the how's. And I think that's what led me to coaching. So I was like, what made this class different? It's because they focused on two things that I think are really important, immersion as much as possible and using the language as much as possible. So my Japanese one class, we had to, every time we learned something new in Japanese, we had to use it in the class.
Japanese two was half in Japanese, half in English,
So we had to use the language more. By the time I got to Japanese three, that was an entirely Japanese class. There was no English allowed in that classroom. If you needed to use English, you had to ask for permission In Japanese, we were writing essays in Japanese. We were having different cultural experiences around New York from New York. And then my friends throughout those three years were so excited about the process that we did even more. We made a whole language, Japanese language and culture club, so we could just watch shows and then have the school pay for, we did rice ball events so we could just make rice balls together and have fried shrimp, and we did it all. And we would go to the different cafes on campus talking Japanese with each other, texting each other in Japanese. We lived it.
So even to this day when I don't use it as much, Japanese is one of the languages that I am more comfortable jumping back into because I had so much exposure and practice.
And I realized those were the two things that I don't think people emphasize enough as I started to progress even more that a lot of resources and polyglots and language experts online, they often talk about the study part, study the vocabulary, study the grammar, get your flashcards and do your daily flashcards and get your streak on Duolingo lingo, dear. Or they say, start from day one and do the thing you're trying to do with no practice, no information.
Either option is either neglecting some areas that are important or putting you in a position that you might not be ready for yet, and it's okay to not be ready. And so I think what I have learned and what got me into coaching was that you really have to do what worked best for you. But in order to do that, you need to know your options. And it's hard to find your options when everyone is kind of regurgitating and saying the same things over and over again. They're all repeating the same five strategies as the only way to learn a language. And anyone that says anything else, they're like, you're wrong. And that doesn't work. The amount of times I've had to fight about learning multiples at the same time, they're like, you can't do it. I'm like, but I did. And they're like, and people do every day, or the thing is, it's going to take you too long. I'm not in a rush. Yeah, I know. So there's these beliefs that are involved in it that's like, you shouldn't do it because it's going to take too long. Well, do you have a deadline?
Because then yeah, maybe you might want to consider something else.
But most of us, we set up deadlines, we sign up for a JLPT test, but voluntarily we are setting that deadline for ourselves. And so somewhere between college and then teaching. So I teach middle school and I've done elementary for a little bit. I joined a Discord group and we became really close friends in that group and we would help each other. And I just became the organization person. If they needed a plan or needed help figuring out resources, they would ask me for that or could you help me set up my notion and I need a worksheet for? And through those conversations, I remember one person, I was like, I want to do something. I'm thinking about business, but I don't know what to do. I just feel called to have my own thing.
She was like, help people with languages. She was like, look at this person here. And sent me a couple videos of people that she followed and I was like, language coaching, I could do that. I don't have, because I didn't really feel called to teach the languages I have. I've done that with friends, but I feel like I could definitely recommend my favorite teachers and favorite resources, but I didn't want to be another person in the space
Teaching the languages. There's nothing wrong with that, but I was like, that's just not what I want to do. So what else is there? I was translators, but I don't really want to be a translator and an interpreter, but that sounds cool. But I feel like I'd get frustrated or bored after a little bit. I'd be like, shiny object in this. So coaching is what I landed on, and then I had to figure out what that meant because it's not really, well now it's more of a thing, but when I first started, it was emerging as something that was more mentoring, mentoring, mentor Cerner. And it was usually people who were really popular in social media sharing their own language learning process, and people wanted their insight. And so I was like, well, I'm not popular. No one knows who I am. I'm not on social media. I don't have a YouTube channel, I don't have an Instagram. But I was like, I do know what I know.
I do know that it works because I recognize patterns and I'm like, again, I'm always into the why's and the how's and I document everything. I write it all down and I'm taking notes because I really want to understand why was my Japanese language experience so different from when I was learning Spanish for six years,
Three years versus six years, and I feel like there was more progress. And so I was like, okay, let's just do it and start speaking to the things that you believe in about language earning. And it's always been mostly speaking to myself at first, it's like perfection. You can be a perfectionist, but learn when to turn it on and turn it off. Because there's also this view of I'm a recovered perfectionist and I don't knock anyone who says that, but for me, I was like, but I'm always going to be that way because it's so ingrained.
So I was like, well, how can I use that to my vantage, that means I have high standards. That means that I want things to look a certain way. So when can I have high standards and when do I have to let that go? And I had to practice that and learn that, and that helped me to go the revision, the revision of the work. Or when I do a speaking practice activity, record myself, go back to fix it. That's the perfectionism. That's what I'm going in and honing in and trying to fix those mistakes for the first time, you just got to get it done. So then language coaching and developing more language around what we already know, because a lot of the stuff we do already know or we've heard it, but sometimes we don't believe it or we don't really have the frame to talk about it. It's like when people give you a word for being bilingual, if you've never heard the word bilingual before, you're just like, there are some people who speak two languages. And then once someone says, yeah, that's someone who's bilingual, you're like, oh, there's a word for that,
So I'm not weird. This is a thing.
Then it gives clarity, it gives comfort, it gives support, and it also gives direction. And so I feel like a lot of what I do, which actually I didn't think about until right now, is it's giving that clarity in that direction. It's like it's naming literally epiphanies as we're talking the power of dialogue, but it's giving that clarity in that direction. It's like, especially for my introvert people, I think I harp a lot on introverts because a lot of people feel like introversion and introverts are people who are shy, who are socially anxious. And the thing that I talk about a lot is that you can be socially anxious and be an extrovert. You can thrive off of being around people and still struggle to be around people. You might be in company and say nothing. And so a lot of people who meet me, they're like, I didn't know you were an introvert, because I'm very outgoing.
I love to talk with people, but I also say I need three to five business days afterwards to recover. I need some time to retreat into me and to read and to do the things that reenergize me, and then I'll go back out there and have all the energy in the world for another 16 hours.
And I think there's a lot of strategies that are put out there for us to learn languages and learn culture and to use what we're learning that are more leaning towards extroverts and pushing ourselves to constantly people and people and be around people and talk with people. And I feel like there are ways to do it that don't drain your energy so that you can actually do the thing you want to do. And many of the people that I work with actually don't want to speak some of the languages they're learning. They have maybe one or two that they want to communicate with family or to travel, and then they have a couple, they're like, I want to listen to music and understand the music. That's my goal. I just want to read books or watch drama. I don't actually want to talk with anyone. It would be great, but that's not my priority. And the sort of extrovert strategies are attend to focus on speaking more than anything else.
Michelle:
Lots of thoughts in that. These are fantastic points. By the way. I just had I think 10 light bulbs in my head. They're all gone at this moment because I'm not writing notes as I'm focused on you talking. But I feel like I just want to tell you that there is not only a lot of overlap in the ways that we think individually, but also how we are talking about these very complicated topics. Mainly what I see online. And tell me if you see the same, and I think you did mention it just now, there's a fair amount of people talking about the ultimate way, the best place, the fire. You can have things be proven, but not necessarily the only way. I don't know when this became the whole come to Jesus thing of the language learning world, right? Yes. Because that reference is totally lost on anyone who doesn't understand your Christianity. But honestly, it feels sometimes like they're putting out an altar call and they're literally just like, alright, let's go. Anyone ready to join me on this? And it's not to say that you're not a person saying this is not qualified, but why are you acting as though everyone's brains are working the same or you've cracked the code on human cognition because I didn't need my psych and neuroscience background to tell me that we all think differently. We all process differently as a human, understand that already, right?
There's something that's providing so much contrast. I think in the work that you're doing, obviously the work I'm doing, but also many select other people I see where the amount of pushback we have to give just to even take up space in the industry. I think it's why you're having, I don't know if there are arguments, but you're having fiery spirited conversation with people on the fact that you can, I mean, just because somebody didn't learn multiple languages at the same time does not mean everybody cannot learn multiple languages at the same time. Right?
You talking about wanting to help others figure out the best way for them, that is something that is, that's actually so new as if people don't know that there are allowed to think individually uniquely about their own selves. And I feel that's where we hit something so deep and actually a little bit sad because you're an adult and you've gone all this time and you've built your life and you didn't realize that you didn't know this about yourself. It's almost like it can be actually a little bit of an emotional experience for some people to see that the way they're thinking about something like their own learning could have been so hidden this entire time. And I've definitely experienced when people have those epiphanies and they're just breaking down over my zoom call because I'm, it's not like, I'm so sorry, but it's almost like I'd rather you realize that and then move into that empowered state where you can do something about it versus stay there forever.
Really everything you're sharing on how much you were influenced by different types of instruction. I mean, that's not just a New York thing or a US
Michelle:
That's something that we actually go through. Even people who live in countries that have standardized education systems, you have different teachers, you have different types of exposure, your communities look different. And with technology now you're able to access different things. And it's almost as though people don't know they're supposed to connect with the things that they've done over the course of their lives. And almost instead of just looking forward, I dunno, I don't speak Japanese, so I need to go find the best Japanese school and the most accredited teacher in all this, find a Japanese person, right? Oh my gosh, I'm going to go attack the sushi restaurant down the street because they have, oh, they're not Japanese. Oh crap. Okay. So it's like, this is my whole point around it, why people don't do that reflective process first to say, alright, how have I even approached languages to begin with? And that's something that you did, that's something that you were able to recognize. But I do think it's not the norm to encourage self-reflection. The norm in this industry right now is to sell, sell, sell, sell. Yes, yes. You want to see the light. Follow me. Right.
Bront'e:
I appreciate what you said because I think what I've learned is that a lot of times we're not taught how to think or learn. We're just taught the information, especially in the us. I can't speak for other education systems, but I see what people share about their own experiences online in other countries. And generally there are some threads that are the same because, even in areas where you are thought to think creatively and to problem solve in new and in innovative ways, there's still this aspect of, okay, but what tools help you to learn? I remember when I was teaching in middle school in person, and me and my co-teacher at the time were looking into learning styles, and I had known about it for years, but I was trying to figure out a way to introduce it to the students so that they could figure out what works best for them. And I remember expressing that even though the website say your learning style is read, write, style or kinesthetic, that for me, I do them as ratios that we have all of those learning styles, but depending on the situation or just even generally speaking, there might be one that's a little bit stronger for you than the others.
And my teacher was like, yeah, I agree. We were on the same page. We were about to bring it to the students. And there was one teacher on our team that was learning style has been debunked, right? It's not a real thing. I was like, I have so many thoughts and so many questions, but I don't know if it's going to be supportive for either of us. And so I think that there's a lot of that, oh, I've read online that it's been debunked, therefore I'm never going to use this information. Even if it's supportive to you and it's helpful to help you move forward.
Michelle:
Yes, this is my entire problem with people who are the data loving people. I really, really, I am not against data at all. I am not going to go into my whole background on it, but I am not naive to research or to quantitative analysis at all. At all. However, the, it's almost like the empowerment spectrum. We find it on both sides. We find it on the side of people who I think have no idea that there is a whole body of research literature out there and that there are studies done on how learning behaviors, because it does fall into behaviors and cognition and all that. Those different sub-disciplines are fantastic. But then you have the people who are just trying to go with the latest trend, and I don't actually know, which is, I think they're all equally useless if you decide that you're going to only take whatever was proven in one study, one study with a sample size of 20 students from this one particular type without even thinking about education system, the culture that they were in, which language, it was all this stuff. And instead of just thinking critically and taking what you need for yourself, because again, I need to understand myself to know what it is I need, the ping pong effect starts to happen.
Bront'e:
And that's why when I think I cheekily use the ultimate, the greatest. And then when people get my resources, it's like, get clarity.
Why are you learning this language in the first place? Create your plan. What kind of plan do you need? And I think that's why I made a video a while ago that was the best resource for learning any language. And then the video was like, if you're asking yourself what's the best resource, you're asking the wrong question. Exactly. I got comments of people who were like, but you still didn't tell us which app to download. I know. And I was like, you missed the point of the video. And again, it's, it's not the fault because so much of what we do in this space is listening to someone who you think has the right answer without realizing that you can collect data about yourself and figure out what works for you based on that. And I think there's a lot of empowerment in that. So I'm like, that's one of my things. It's like collect data about you.
Michelle:
Yeah, exactly. That's the best thing. Why is everyone trying to collect information that's coming from some other source? Okay, we're going to go too far if I go on that whole thing because it's too much of my frustration. But honestly, that whole, I mean that comment section remark, that doesn't even surprise me because I don't think for one moment anyone stops to think about how many times have I actually downloaded the best, the newest, the most amazing usually crap product, tool. Resource. And I have had to do my own personal work around this as well when deciding how to show up online. I was not, wasn't on social media, wasn't trying to be on social media, really was totally fine. Not doing this yet same, but was so frustrated. I was like, I have to see the mess, but honestly, I feel nobody is challenging other people to just take a look. And the first feedback I had, it was early on, and it was basically some people being like, okay, well then how are you different? You doing the same thing of telling people to listen to you? And I'm like, no, but the difference is I'm trying to tell you to listen to yourselves. That's a very different message. I'm not asking. Yes, it's coming from my mouth, but it's also coming. Look, there are these other people saying it too.
Bront'e:
Yes.
Michelle:
Right.
Bront'e:
Yeah. I definitely have had those moments too because I'm like, there is no best method. And then at the same time, I'm like, the best method is to listen to yourself. And I'm like, how can I say those two things at the same time? But I'm like, but it makes sense.
Michelle:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think what we're saying is that there is no template method that you have to figure out what your personal template or patterns and you have to build it in your own way, which is that's not invalid. And that does not invalidate this whole outrageous model of there being cookie cutter. One size fits all. Right?
Bront'e:
Yeah. Because I think a lot of people when they're looking for that, they're expecting, or when we say what the best way is, which is the clarity and all those pieces they're looking for in the first three months of learning this language, you should start with immersion and use these podcasts and then you should stop your immersion and start with journaling next. And I'm like, maybe,
Michelle:
But
Bront'e:
Also maybe not.
Michelle:
Yeah, exactly. How dare we suggest that people figure out the best way? And I always put it to I like, okay, fine, fine, fine. Not language, just apparently this is the mental block coming everywhere. Alright, think about health and fitness, think about diet. Think about how many times someone has tried to sell you a pre-packaged diet method and you have been like, yeah, okay, I don't know slim fast. Jenny said
Bront'e:
Yes,
Michelle:
Where's supposed to, what was it? Weight Watchers. Yes, it's going to work. And it's like how many times have, even if you didn't try one of these things, you understand the concept of why it didn't work and it's because it was not built for you and it wasn't,
Bront'e:
Yeah, the paleo diet. The Mediterranean diet, again, there's so many paths.
Michelle:
And so if we can understand that base concept for something that is a little more familiar, because I think if we think about fitness too, like, oh yeah, you want to build muscle, lose fat, whatever it is, follow this exercise, Anita, you're just like, you
Bront'e:
Should only do yoga. You should only do Pilates. You should only do body weight training.
Michelle:
You should go do CrossFit at 5:00 AM in the morning every day. You're not committed. You're not committed if you don't, right? Yeah. Yes.
But I think if you put it, and I've started really to use other examples as well, and it's also because online I've gotten in touch with so many other people from other industries and that's been one of the best things because I think what everyone's running into, and these are all the same types of people trying to empower their clients, not trying to sell them on a new method. And when people say, all right, so it's like we cultivate method. And I'm like, no, no, it's not the we cultivate method. It is the we cultivate approach philosophy. They're just like, isn't that the same thing? And it's like, no, no, it's not at all the same thing. It is not a method because if anything, the method is make your own freaking method. You know what I mean? How much clearer can we get on this moving forward though?
Because my husband, we can this forever, forever. Look, you me, I'm a call like three other people. We're going to get on a zoom and we're just, we're going to open up a bottle of wine and we're going to for the next five hours talk about this. But seriously, I think also, and by the way, I love your handle, your name. I love your branding. I think it's so cool because thank you. The word polyglot actually has started to trigger me on a very deep level because of all the nonsense that's out there. And what I loved about when we connected online was that I didn't see you saying the exact same template script I see from everyone else. I speak blah, blah.
Bront'e:
Oh, that was literally what I didn't want to make. I get questions about that or do you have videos of you speaking the languages? And I have grappled with that.
I have one video on my YouTube channel of me speaking in Spanish, and it's still in the format of what I do of how to learn Spanish and Spanish. I get the desire to want to hear me speak. The languages is proof. But I also think that there's this, I don't know if it's an obsession or if it's like a, I don't know what to call it, but this thing about needing to see other people speaking the language in order to then believe that they can support you, I do recognize that there is an aspect of this that is about inspiration, especially for people who look like me and are like, oh my God, you speak multiple languages. I'm like, yes. So I do recognize that and that's why it's been a difficult path. But yes, as you said that I was like, that triggers me too because I would see those and people would go, okay, this person studied for eight hours every day and this was the schedule that they did and they shared it online and grateful that they shared it because people can try that out for themselves, gather data and decide what works and doesn't work.
But they don't do that part. They try the whole thing. And the person who shared it was a college student and they're a full-time nine to fiver, maybe have children and are like, why is this not working for me? And instead of that data gathering and saying, okay, well let me take this part out too much and let me shrink down the time. They're like, something's wrong with me. I guess I can't learn languages.
And usually the fault is like, I'm too old to learn languages. I literally just saw another person who said that and I was like, no, no, no. And let me tell you, and I posted about this, if you are from an immigrant family damn well that there is no such thing as being too old for shit, you are never too old because you don't have the choice.
Yeah. I was like, you're not allowed to.
Michelle:
Yeah, exactly. My grandparents literally teaching, first of all, learning. My grandfather is the one who taught me Microsoft Office because he had just learned it after arriving in the US and being like, okay, so English and computer skills, this is what we need to do in the age of in my seventies, he was already in his seventies. My grandmother also, they got their citizenship and they could converse with people in English and them doing that. And not only that, me being very involved in the local community and seeing other elderly people who did that, I once taught a class that was only 80 to 90-year-old grandfathers. It was at community center and zero times will you hear them say, oh, I think I'm too old. I think if people look for excuses, I think it's the whole, well, it's easy. It's like when people are like, oh, well, now that I'm 25, I should settle down it a whole. Yes, we're already to say that my back hurts because I'm 22 now, and it's like I just it down. I mean, I'll say I do jokingly say that, but I recognize that I'm not being serious. And when I'm like 30 now, seriously. Exactly. No, it's the difference of, I mean, you can of course crack a joke. You can of course be like :
How? But when you seriously believe it,
I know. And that's the number one thing standing in your way when you believe that there is an upper limit on where you can go, well, you're not going anywhere because you've decided to put the ceiling there.
Bront'e:
Yeah. I think when we talked last, I think it was in our last conversation, I talked about the quote that I share all the time, whether you think you can or think you can't. And that's the truth of it is if you believe that you can't do this, not only will you make excuses about it, right or wrong, excuses, valid or not, but then you're also going to reinforce those excuses with your actions or your inactions, the things that you avoid and the things that you do. But when you believe in it, you're going to find ways to make it happen. And then you're going to have proof that it is true, but you can't develop that proof if you don't believe and then try.
Michelle:
The biggest thing I hear as a direct response to that is always, oh, well, I mean, do you think it's just positive thinking, so I should just believe I can? Yes.
No, I mean, I'm not saying, go again, ping pong. Right? I'm not saying go to the other side and just be like, oh, it's all in your head. If you believe you can speak Japanese, you can.
Bront'e:
You manifest your Japanese skills and then never actually do anything. You're still not exactly,
Michelle:
Exactly.
Bront'e:
So good. You believe you're going to then go, okay, so I can open up this app if apps work for you or this textbook and do the work and I'm going to get it. It may not be easy the first time, but I'm going to get it. I can learn
Michelle:
If I can create this space inside of me to go and welcome in other types of resources and tools and skills and knowledge and whatever. And I just collect that. And I love that you say collect data. I say it the same. It's not just, oh God, data is another word. Look at me, I say something. We need to be learn the difference between evaluation as judgment and evaluation as a tool for observation.
Bront'e:
Yes.
Michelle:
That, and I have a whole freaking workshop that if people have
Bront'e:
To work, oh, same.
Michelle:
Yeah, they work with me. They go through this first because we're, I'm like, I'm not working with you, but we are not going to make a lot of progress if you and I cannot agree that there is a difference and that you need to know what the difference is, and please write down for you what the difference is and tell me, prove to me that you understand this concept because if not, we need to talk more.
Bront'e:
Yeah, absolutely. And I love that there are trigger words that we're bringing up. I'm like, let me bring up a couple more fluency. Consistency is the consistency because those are two that I, 15 minutes today, like your abs, and you just go. Those are two words that I also have to redefine in all of the things that I do. When I say fluency, I'm always like, well, what does fluency mean to you? What does that look like? What does that sound like? Because I actually, I just saw a post the other day in a polyglot group that I'm in, and they said, my goal is to get to B two in let's say Spanish or French.
They're like, and then is that enough to be a native speaker? And obviously that had lots of different opinions in the comments, and some people were like, yes, most people who speak the language at a native level are like B one, B two. And then some people were like, you need C two or nothing. And I was like, but some native speakers aren't even there in the language. So it's like what does fluency mean to you? And then consistency, because so many people, especially a lot of the people that I work with are fellow A, D, H, D, and autistic learners. And consistency feels like it means every day the same thing. So I'm always consistency is doing it regularly. And I always compare it to watering a plant. I'm like lots of plants that we have in our homes that they need different amounts of water. I was like, I have an orchid that if you put more than a couple sprays on it, it's going to die. It's going to be really dramatic and it's going to die and you need to spray just a little bit and you leave it alone for a week. And that's just consistency. And then some consistency. I don't remember the name of the plant, but my mom has, it's everywhere in our house just leaves. And that needs a lot of water, but you don't have to do it too often. It just needs a lot of water. So again, the amount of water that you give it, the frequency that you come back to give it more, the sunlight, all these other factors impact the way the plants thrive. And in that same way for our language studies, you might need different frequencies of studying. So maybe two times, three times, four times a week, you might need different amounts of what you're doing, the tasks that you're doing, the resource that you're using. It all depends what kind of plant are you? Maybe I should make that a quiz. What kind of plant
Michelle:
Are you? I love it so much because I actually think, and if you think of a plant, it needs to be sustained because it needs to grow, but it also needs to survive. So you need to know based on, I would actually go take it a step further, and it's not just what type of plant argue life point blank. It's also what type of plant are you in this season of your life? Because you may not need to be an orchid if you are out in the freaking winter with the polar bears.
Bront'e:
No, but I talk about that too because I say the me that I was in college learning languages, we did 12 hours of study because after class we were still studying, we were still practicing. I am not that Bront'e anymore. When I got to teaching immediately I switched everything that I was doing because I didn't have that kind of time availability or mental space. And then after teaching, now we're doing mostly remote stuff.
Again, a new version of me that I've had to adjust and shift. So yeah, I love that as well in this season to remind people that it's going to change and that's okay.
Michelle:
Yeah. Okay. The other word that definitely gets me, and I post about it quite a lot, is about native speakers and this idea of there being what I call the fallacy or the myth of a native speaker, because it's not to say that native speakers don't exist, it's just how we are talking about them in the language industry, literally as if you ascend, right? You go from nothing, then you go a one, then you go A to, then you go B one, then you get to C two and you're like, but I'm not a native speaker yet. And I think I broke some people's minds the first time we met. And as I continue to do it, when I do consult with new people and they're like, I want to be a native speaker. And I'm like, that's interesting. Okay, so tell me what you mean by that. And I just did this. I saw that post and that was literally, it took two seconds to make because I'm like, this is my everyday life.
And it's this question that shocks a lot of people because they're like, well, I'm sorry, you're a native speaker, so you know what I mean? And I'm like, no, I want you to tell me what you are thinking, what you're imagining because, and I will explain after that not everybody has the same answer. Some people have told me native speaker to them means that they just want to speak really easily. So it's like they don't have the pressured type of output that they, or the self-confidence being very, very, very low all the time kind of feeling other people literally want to be me. They want to
You could say it like that. But literally when they described to me that they want all of the ways that I would say things, I'm like, well, then you don't want to be a native speaker. You want to be Michelle, which is not the same thing because native speaker or not, I will still describe things in my way and my way. It's not about the language, it's how I'm choosing to express. And a lot of people don't get that. And I mean going to your previous point on how powerful finding the right words and the right phrasings can be,
Bront'e:
I remember the thought that I said earlier that I said I would come to, I was like, perfect segue is that the differences between a language and a dialect for many people is a gray area. And so I have friends who speak English and then speak Jamaican or and Patois, and that is a language. I don't care what anybody else says. The reason why it says a language is that if I am not exposed to it for a long period of time, I don't understand it. And that's not my culture. But I grew up around it. And there are times where I'm like, I don't understand anything anymore. I'm so sorry. And then the language has to shift or not has to, but the people that I'm speaking to shift their language so that I can actually participate in the conversation. And in that same way, I brought up how technically I grew up in a English speaking household, but we speak, what is it called? A VE, Ebonics American English. And the more that I interact with people across so many different areas, especially online because we have this as a tool, the more I learn that some of the ways that I communicate are not standard, that are its own language, it's not just a dialect of saying something in a different way. It's like we actually have a different way of thinking of this. And there's
A cultural aspect. I don't know. And so for me, and for many people, it's a very gray area. Actually. I wrote some things down because I was like, I want to remember some of the things that are said. And there's this one expert, I'm going to try to make sure to share his Instagram with you in case people want to read more amazing at what he shares. He brings up a lot of, he gives names to a lot of the things that I know but didn't think about until he labels it. And I'm like, oh, that's a thing. So he talks about discourse markers when we're talking and how a lot of people in my community will say things like, girl, listen or see, look. Or the one that I know was prevalent on the internet for various reasons is like child and it's not child. It's more like Chile.
Michelle:
Yes. With the running L.
Bront'e:
Yes, yes. And these are just ways that we start off what we're about to say but doesn't necessarily have a meaning. So when we're like, listen, we're not actually asking you to listen.
It’s just us getting ready to say the thing that we're about to say. And I didn't realize that that was not a standard concept until I start to get exposed to different ways of speaking, especially English, because English is spoken in so many places that every area has their own version of it. And then talking about how me and my friends and my family and people in my community, we make up our own words all the time. One of the things that we do is adding ility or anything that adds an adverb. So comfortability is one that is quite often will say things like He's so scary. Not that he's actually scary, but he's scared.
Michelle:
Yeah,
Bront'e:
I see my cat's acting real scary.
Michelle:
Yeah. That's also with the real, right? Yeah, exactly.
Bront'e:
Yeah. So it's just certain things like that and combining all of that with the grammar made me understand or come to a slow realization of it's not just inserter word here and now you can understand, but there's a whole construction that is vastly different. And actually the first time it was pointed out to me was when I invited some college friends to my house.
And apparently when I switched from talking to them to talking with my mom, they were like, you spoke a little bit different, very close friends. We talked about language and culture and all of these things already. So I was very close with them, but they were like, I never heard you talk like that before. They were like, that's different. So I started to pay more attention. It didn't make me self-conscious, thankfully, because it definitely could have even low intention, but it was just pointing out that I didn't realize that I naturally just switched into something else. And so I think one of the things that I love about what I do and what we do, especially what we share on social media, is pointing out the things we already do and the languages that we speak to help you understand the languages that you're learning already. When we forget a word, we don't necessarily say, okay, conversation's over, I'm not talking anymore. We go, okay, what was the word? Shut?
We don't shut down. We're like, okay, the thing, it's metal and it has holes in it, and we're starting to describe it and maybe the other person has cute. Yes. And so that's a skill that we have that we don't recognize until someone points it out. And that's something that when we're learning another language, we struggle to do because we feel like we need to know all the words for all the things. When in reality, even in our native language, we're describing things all the time. We're forgetting words all the time and just going, or there's standard words for thingy or what youma call it in almost every language, because I just learned the one for Spanish. I heard it, or the person whose name you don't know. And I was like, so we all have that word for when you don't know the word and we just describe it. So give yourself permission to do that.
Michelle:
Absolutely. I appreciate you bringing this up by the way, because I feel like the self-awareness part doesn't come just because you became had. I mean, I'm sure you're very not to take away from your inner life, you know what I mean? But it's also that you highlight this one moment where your friends are like, whoa, hey, I just noticed something. And I would say that's probably also a pretty common experience, friends being like, Hey, I noticed this about you. Whoa, that's different. I feel that people who can take those comments and find the place for self-examination using that as a channel are generally the people who then start to go deeper and deeper and deeper. And it's really people who are able to do that early on in life. I do think it sets you up better for all of your learning experiences going forward because you're like, I've already learned to see the nuances inside of my own language, inside of the way that I shift and adapt in my own society. So these aren't new concepts when they're presented to me in a new language.
Bront'e:
And I think even though many of us learn that early, it doesn't mean there's no age limit to start it. Oh, you could start at any point. But I will say that even outside of language learning, it was something that I was raised on a very early age because my mom used to talk a lot about bullying and how to handle bullies. She was like, you're going to get bullied. I'm just telling you now. She's like, because they're going to talk about your glasses. Glasses, were not cool then. And she's like, you're very smart, and you get good grades. They're going to talk about that. They're going to call you a nerd, but here's how you handle it and you don't let them get to you. And that's when I learned the power of laughing at what people say or asking for clarity. I remember being called a geek,
And I was like, actually, I'm not a geek. I'm a nerd, so please, if you're going to, I was like, you got to call it correct. I was like, I'm not a geek. I'm not that into technology, but I am smart, so I'm a nerd. I was like, please don't call me a dork because my glasses actually look good. And that would cause this confusion in the person that's trying to, and I think that process of thinking through how people interact and why people do the things that they do, why do people bully and why do people say these things got me into the language. It was a natural thing for me to also think about languages and why do we learn certain ways? And that's also why I think I naturally drifted into teaching because I had been learning and then sharing what I learned with people for years. And so I was like, here I am.
Michelle:
I don't know if you ever feel this, but I feel sometimes the kid versions of us would probably be really proud of the way that we turned out because for sure, baby Michelle was bullied a lot and she has found her healing because of the way that adult empowered Michelle is able to show up also, not just for myself, but for other people. And that's exactly what I see you doing. I mean, your teaching work, that's not language related at all, right? That's like,
Bront'e:
Yeah, it's just general education, some sped work, elementary, middle school, all subjects.
Michelle:
Just to jump over into out of the language world for a moment, do you feel like there are things that you see as being kind of in common between what you do inside of your language coaching stuff, all the topics we're already talking about, like learner disengagement and
Bront'e:
Disempowerment?
Michelle:
Do you also see that inside of your normal classroom?
Bront'e:
Absolutely. That's my ground for practicing or reverse is I practice with my adult clients and then I bring it to the students. So I talk about motivation and I talk about making mistakes with my young kids, and then I bring it to the adult. And I say I work with both age groups. It's not an age thing. I have clients in their sixties, seventies, eighties.
I have students that I've worked with as young as nine years old. I've worked across all ages. It's not an age thing, but yeah, absolutely. About the process. Well, one thing, for example, that I use with my clients that I have learned through my general teaching is about how to improve reading. There's a lot of strategies that we have as teachers for improving reading skills, improving pronunciation for the younger kids as well. And there's this one resource that's written in a variety of ways. But the general idea is questions that you ask yourself before reading a text, questions that you ask yourself while reading a text,
Questions that you ask after. And it's like a very well-known strategy. There's variety of questions. Sometimes it's what the teachers will ask the students to get them started. Sometimes it's what you give to students so they can ask themselves. And then I immediately was like, well, why don't language learning people talk about this? I've never heard a language teacher talk about this. And I was like, there's this to me, again, because I'm in both areas, there's this natural overlap between the two. But if you're not in both spaces, you don't know the information that you don't know. And so I remember bringing that up to one of my clients was like, oh yeah, there's these questions comprehension questions to see if you understand. Right. Versus just write a summary journal about what you wrote. Even for my students, it's like, okay, the book was good and there was a dog. The dog was small. Your point. Yeah, tons of overlap and I'm thinking about it and using it all the time.
Michelle:
We are running out of time, but thank you so much for joining me today. Where can people find you, by the way? I know you're kind of everywhere, but where are you mostly these days?
Bront'e:
Yeah, so Instagram threads and YouTube. I am getting my YouTube consistency going, so definitely there, but Instagram is my main place, but basically like you said, everywhere. Anywhere. The Polyglot Fox, you will probably find me there.
